Cheers.
Mike
At 10:54 PM 12/16/97 -0600, you wrote:
><snip>
>...so I bought a calcium test kit. What I discovered is my
>> calcium level is less than 20ppm in my tap water. So though it was
>> very hard water, most of the hardness was not cause by calcium.
>>
>> Generally I have torn down an 10 gallon tank and totally replaced the
>> water before adding a mop of eggs. I'll then drop in the mop and one
>> HBH balance block. With Melanotaenia, if I have fry with in 24 hours I
>> get deformed fry. Fry born after this period do not have the fin
>> deformities exhibited by these early born fry. I have yet to actually
>> measure the level of calcium added by the balance block in 24 hours,
>> but it is obvious that not enough has dissolved to supply the needs of
>> the fry.
>> I have now began adding calcium chloride to the water, rather than
>> waiting for the balance blocks to dissolve. I feel this should give me
>> better control over calcium levels without the lag time waiting for
>> the blocks to dissolve.
>Cary what is the KH of this designed water?
>After playing with the reef blocks a few times I reached the same conclusions -
>the calcium wasn't available fast enough nor at reliable hardness
>concentrations. Besides everything else, compared to calcium chloride, which
>can be bought at the hardware store (ice-melt) it is very expensive. With
>calcium chloride you just add a certain amount, dissolve it and you're
>finished. I would make sure of your hardness before you go adding anything
>willy-nilly. For instance Mike Adams mentioned that he used reef blocks in his
>set up to add calcium to the water. Perhaps not all of Lexington KY is on the
>same water system but the water I measured was 233 ppm (~ 13 drops GH). When I
>remeasured with a calcium specific hardness kit (Wardley Professional Test Kit)
>it was 100% calcium, not a single bit of magnesium hardness to be found! That
>surprised me so much that I repeated both tests. Most public water systems
>that I've tested are usually 50:50 magnesium to calcium. Mike if your water is
>the same I would suggest that you aren't doing your fry a lot of good with the
>blocks. You might be better off adding a bit of baking soda though, the KH of
>Lexington is only 2 degrees (36 ppm) hardness. About 1/2 teaspoon/10 gallons
>will increase your carbonate hardness about 2 degrees. but.... don't go too
>overboard.
>
>Now how the H*** does all of this calcium/magnesium compare to what we see in
>nature? Cary, did you see this deformity happen with any Australian rainbows?
>I think I have seen it with some trifasciatas. It sounds like quite a few of
>the NG fish come from harder water. Some of the other numbers I wouldn't mind
>rechecking myself. Some creeks like Harvey's creek are incredibly soft,
>essentially 0 degrees GH and KH, pH pretty low too. (springtime, October
>measurements). Many of Bruce's measurements also showed these low values. So
>how do those fish survive and not all have these fin deformities that we
>observe in our aquariums?
>
>My "theory" is that it's a balance between carbonate (KH) and GH (specifically
>Calcium). Too much carbonate compared to Calcium and you end up with deformed
>fins. My water is 7-8 degrees general hardness GH (about 125-143 ppm). About
>1/2 of that is calcium (3.5-4 degrees hardness). My KH, carbonate hardness is
>usually around 2 degrees. I normally never have a problem with fin deformities
>unless I really abuse the tank by not doing any water changes. I managed to do
>that 2 times in about 10 years so it wasn't an everyday occurrence. About a
>year or so I started adding enough baking soda to increase the carbonate
>hardness by about 2 degrees. (I did this so I would have a more stable pH as
>my pH can crash to 5.5 within a few week without a water change). All of a
>sudden I started seeing lots of fry with deformed fins. I didn't change
>anything in how I was raising fry except for the carbonate value. My carbonate
>value was somewhat equal or greater than my calcium hardness value. I managed
>to do this to M. papuae and M. trifasciata, canoe creek. I had a few others
>too that I trashed right away, happy coal grunter, sad owner. I then started
>playing with the calcium blocks and then settled on the more reliable calcium
>chloride. I moved my (calcium), GH hardness up about 7 degrees (108 ppm) by
>adding 1/2 teaspoons (2.5cc) of calcium chloride per 4 gallons. After that
>I've had absolutely no problems with deformed fins on my fry. I think that a
>calcium/carbonate balance ratio is the easiest way to explain away this
>problem. Otherwise you have to start doing a lot of handwaving in trying to
>explain why it doesn't happen to fry in their native waters. Some have
>proposed theories about vitamin deficiencies, not the right type of live foods
>etc., but I think that's probably reaching too much. This theory would also
>suggest why coral/shell grit might not work very well, especially in a fairly
>crowded tank. For each bit of calcium you would also be getting an equal
>amount of carbonate.
>
>My request to you, especially if you've had problems with deformed fins on your
>fry. What is/was the general hardness of your water? If you have a calcium
>test kit what percentage of that general hardness is actually calcium? What is
>the KH of your water?
>
>
>
------------------------------
Michael F. Adams Jr.
Graduate Studies in Transportation/Environmental Engineering
College of Engineering--Traffic Lab
C216 CE/Trans Building
University of Kentucky
Lexington, Kentucky
606/257-4349