----- Original Message -----
From: bowluvr <bowluvr at msn.com>
Date: Thursday, August 30, 2001 2:08 am
Subject: Re: [RML]
> OK...
>
> I keep waiting for Gary to say something regarding this thread,
> but since he
> has yet to surface, I feel I need to say something here. ;-)
>
> I do not agree with this post, at least to the extent that one
> cannot use a
> standard dechlorinator when dealing with chloramines. In some
> circumstances,one CAN, and quite safely. I have been doing so for
> the past 6 years and
> have yet to lose a fish to this practice. It was Gary, in fact,
> who got me
> started on this. :-) Got on my case about it is probably a more
> accurateterm, but, hey, everyone needs a good lecturing once in
> awhile, right? ;-P
>
> There are a few rules I follow, mainly 1) that I double the dose
> (or triple
> it sometimes), as this is necessary to make sure the chemical bond
> is broken
> and the chlorine is realeased and neutralised. 2) I also never use a
> standard dechlorinator in a newly established (or bacterially-
> compromised...How's that for fancy verbiage?) tank, as there is
> nothing there to take up
> the ammonia.
>
> I have used this in hard, alkaline water (Phoenix, AZ where the pH
> is 8 and
> it breaks your sink falling out of the tap) as well as my current
> soft,acidic Portland tap water. It works fine.
>
> Gary's argument was simple: active, funtioning bio and/or plant
> filters will
> take up any ammonia as soon as it's released. Besides that, the amount
> released from the new water is quite small. I keep everything from
> rainbowfish, to South American and West African cichlids, to
> killies, to
> catfish, to Tanganyikan cichlids... many of which are highly
> sensitive to
> both chlorine and ammonia, esp the Tanganyikans. I have never,
> ever had a
> problem.
>
> I am currently using Genesis at 3 drops/gallon, and frequently do
> very large
> changes of 50% or more. Works great and much cheaper than Amquel
> and Prime.
> I am a big fan of those 2 products, please don't get me wrong, but
> I would
> go broke using them as I have about 90 tanks to try and keep up
> with. ;-)
> I keep those kinds of products around, but for a more specialized
> use, such
> as for new tanks or emergency ammo-removing. I do not use them
> everydayanymore.
>
> So, to flat-out say that you cannot use a straight dechlorinator for
> chloramine-treated water is not necessarily true.
>
> Gary?? Your comments? ;-)
>
> Down off my soapbox now.
> Julie <><
>
>
>
> > On 28 Aug 2001, at 13:36, Dan Deavours wrote:
> >
> > > I called the water company to see what's up. They're putting
> in 3.5
> > > PPM chlorine in the form of chloramine since they provide
> water up to
> > > 40 miles away.
> >
> > Treating with standard declorinators releases the
> > ammonia in the chloramine. DON'T use the standard
> > declorinator!
> >
> > > I don't know what's "normal," but 3.5 PPM seems kind of high.
> What> > kind of dosage do I need to be using? Also, if I'm using
> water with
> > > 3.5PPM chloramine and dechlorinate, do I get 3.5PPM amonia
> when I'm
> > > done? Yikes!
> >
> > 3.5 ppm = 35 g/L which is alot!
> >
> > > I also learned that the pH is high, like around 8.5, maybe as
> high as
> > > 9, never below 8. They raise it primarily with lyme. I think I'm
> > > fated to never be able to grow plants. Apparently the reason
> the pH
> > > is high is because of lead and copper used in the water
> systems. That
> > > seems to be typical in the midwestern US, or at least that's
> what it's
> > > been like the last 3 places I've lived. Is there an easier
> way of
> > > de-lyming water, except something like RO?
> >
> > The high pH means that most of the ammonia will be
> > ammonia! not ammonium so it will be a very dangerous
> > situation! You will have to bring down the pH or do
> > smaller water changes.
> > Yes! you can grow plants. Most of the floating plants
> > will be able to take it and will also suck up the
> > ammonia if there is enough light.
> > To bring down the pH and hardness use peat. Iether place
> > the peat in the tank or condition the water with peat
> > before doing water changes. This will also help with the
> > chloramine.
> >
> > I'm also concerned with the high copper and lead levels
> > you mention. Do you have values. Copper and lead are
> > very toxicc even at low levels (0.02 ppm!).
> >
> > The peat will adsorb and precipitate much of the lead
> > and copper but maybe not enough.
> >
> > I think an RO unit is the best bet if the peat idea
> > doesn't pan out.
> >
> > Bye
> >
> > Tyrone Genade
> > tyronegenade at yahoo.com
> > http://www.geocities.com/tyronegenade
> >
> > *************************************************************
> > P450 Lab, Biochemistry Department
> > University of Stellenbosch, 7602, South Africa
> > Ph: +27-021-808-5876, fax: +27-021-808-5863
> > **********************************************************
> >
> > "No, the LORD has told us what is good. What He requires
> > of us is this: to do what is just, to show constant love,
> > and to live in humble fellowship with our GOD."
> > Micah 6:8
> >
>
>
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