KISS, it's not just something we do on Valentine's day! "Keep It Simple Stupid" is something you'll see over and over if you attend a local aquarium society. You'll hear all sorts of silly things (unfortunately) on different internet sites from some Joe who has ONE tank to mess with. That pH drop is exactly what can kill rainbowfish and can certainly start a wonderful case of TB outbreak in a tank. It might be the "toilet bowl" syndrome. If you don't do your water changes in a timely manner (because you've made the mixing of waters too complex) you make a wonderful toilet bowl. Once the acids accumulate in a soft, low carbonate tank you lose your buffering capacity and down you go. Also running a tank without a proper lid... I think you should instead introduce your friend to some convict cichlids. Never, I mean never do gudgeons or gobies without a REAALLLY tight fitting lid. I don't do rainbowfish w/o a tight fitting lid either.
Fighting nitrates. Ok if they're in the water you're adding, how do you remove them? I think that they do stress rainbows. Perhaps not enough to kill them right away though. I would always have a planted tank but it's the terristerial plants that really remove nitrates. If you use a sump, put a light on it and dip the "toes" of some plant like "golden Photis" or a Philadendren like plant into the tank. This is tougher to do on a tank that just has a tight fitting lid but it can be done. Rosario LaCorte has been doing this for years and has always talked about the benefits. It is something you can measure. If you have a sump also people have told me that floating watersprite will also work for nitrate removal. Something like the Jungle watersprite, Ceratopteris pteroides will probably also work. Need to get a nitrate kit though and make your measurements. I don't put much stock in the Nitrate (anerobic) removal devices as they can plug up easily or kill everything, ie they
aren't KISS.
Hope you can convince your friend to come back from "the dark side". Otherwise just stick with sicklids :-)
cheers,
gary lange
Julie Zeppieri <bowluvr at hotmail.com> wrote:
You sound like me. Keep it simple and do your water changes. :-)
Julie <><
>From: "christian_vanbelle" <christian_vanbelle at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RML] Re: Unknow cause of mortality
>Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:09:58 -0000
>
>
>Thanks Julie
>
>I told my frind to hold her bows in common city wate who is hard and
>alcaline.
>
>I hold mine in such water and there are no problems even if this
>water is sometimes to high on nitrate. When it is so, I change a
>part with clean rainwater. I have no disease and a normal mortality
>(3 fishes in one year on a school of 40 adults and subadults). And
>they are continuously spawning.
>
>I think my friend wants to do "too much". She tries to have a
>perfect pH, perfect hardness, perfect tanks... I think the better
>way to have beautiful fishes (not only rainbows) is to be regular
>about maintenance and water changes. The harness, pH and other are
>less important. I have hold Symphysodon on a 7.5 pH without any
>problems but I had clean water. Anyway, bows are more sensitive on
>bad conditions and it is sometimes easyer to hold big cichlids such
>as discus than some rainbowfishes. But the common point is
>regularity.
>
>So I avoid too much work on tanks because every manipulation can be
>source of stress or problems (and I think that it is a little bit
>idle too:)). And I'm not a good customer for petshop :) because I
>have no CO2 system, no HQI, no nutritive soil from the trade
>(selfmade only) and I buy my fishes only by private such as Gilbert
>Maebe, Johannes Graf or Christophe Mailliet (no dead fish from them
>for the moment; I wish to thank you, all the three, :)).
>
>Have a good week
>
>Cheers
>
>Christian
>
>
>--- In r_m_l at yahoogroups.com, "Julie Zeppieri" <bowluvr at h...> wrote:
> > Christian,
> >
> > I agree with Peter. It sounds like it is related to the new tank
>they were
> > put into. I have seen many fish die from the shock of going from a
>tank that
> > has higher pH and alkalinity into a tank with lower pH and
>alkalinity, even
> > when they were acclimated normally. Going from high to low can
>really hurt
> > fish, and it is important to take extra precautions when doing
>this.
> > Rainbows are fairly sensitive fishes, so sometimes even more care
>is needed.
> > You did not state the manner in which your friend introduced the
>new fish
> > into his tank. This information could help.
> >
> > It would be helpful to know the water parameters of Gilbert's tank
>where
> > they originally came from. Also it would help to know the rest of
>the
> > details of the water chemistry of your friend's tank, such as
>ammonia,
> > nitrite and (most important) nitrate. These might also have been
>problems
> > for your friend's fish.
> >
> > Julie <><
> >
> >
> > >From: "christian_vanbelle" <christian_vanbelle at y...>
> > >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [RML] Unknow cause of mortality
> > >Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:58:55 -0000
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >
> > >I was going to have some fishes at Gilbert Maebe's house last
> > >saturday with some good friends. I bought a school of Melanotaenia
> > >macculochi Skull Creek (very pretty and small size). A friend of
> > >mine the same fishes from the same tank. Gilbert's fishes are very
> > >good and healthy.
> > >
> > >My friend ste them in a 120 l tank (conductivity 500 ppm, pH 7.5).
> > >After two days, one mac has a spot on his head who seems like
> > >moisture. He died one day after. Today, one fish more died
>without
> > >any traces of disease.
> > >
> > >I hold mine in common water (800 ppm, Ph more than 7.5). I have no
> > >stress and they spawn.
> > >
> > >Has someone a threat to explain the dead of the fishes in my
>friends
> > >tank ?
> > >
> > >Cheers
> > >
> > >Christian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
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You sound like me. Keep it simple and do your water changes. :-)
Julie <><
>From: "christian_vanbelle" <christian_vanbelle at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [RML] Re: Unknow cause of mortality
>Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:09:58 -0000
>
>
>Thanks Julie
>
>I told my frind to hold her bows in common city wate who is hard and
>alcaline.
>
>I hold mine in such water and there are no problems even if this
>water is sometimes to high on nitrate. When it is so, I change a
>part with clean rainwater. I have no disease and a normal mortality
>(3 fishes in one year on a school of 40 adults and subadults). And
>they are continuously spawning.
>
>I think my friend wants to do "too much". She tries to have a
>perfect pH, perfect hardness, perfect tanks... I think the better
>way to have beautiful fishes (not only rainbows) is to be regular
>about maintenance and water changes. The harness, pH and other are
>less important. I have hold Symphysodon on a 7.5 pH without any
>problems but I had clean water. Anyway, bows are more sensitive on
>bad conditions and it is sometimes easyer to hold big cichlids such
>as discus than some rainbowfishes. But the common point is
>regularity.
>
>So I avoid too much work on tanks because every manipulation can be
>source of stress or problems (and I think that it is a little bit
>idle too:)). And I'm not a good customer for petshop :) because I
>have no CO2 system, no HQI, no nutritive soil from the trade
>(selfmade only) and I buy my fishes only by private such as Gilbert
>Maebe, Johannes Graf or Christophe Mailliet (no dead fish from them
>for the moment; I wish to thank you, all the three, :)).
>
>Have a good week
>
>Cheers
>
>Christian
>
>
>--- In r_m_l at yahoogroups.com, "Julie Zeppieri" <bowluvr at h...> wrote:
> > Christian,
> >
> > I agree with Peter. It sounds like it is related to the new tank
>they were
> > put into. I have seen many fish die from the shock of going from a
>tank that
> > has higher pH and alkalinity into a tank with lower pH and
>alkalinity, even
> > when they were acclimated normally. Going from high to low can
>really hurt
> > fish, and it is important to take extra precautions when doing
>this.
> > Rainbows are fairly sensitive fishes, so sometimes even more care
>is needed.
> > You did not state the manner in which your friend introduced the
>new fish
> > into his tank. This information could help.
> >
> > It would be helpful to know the water parameters of Gilbert's tank
>where
> > they originally came from. Also it would help to know the rest of
>the
> > details of the water chemistry of your friend's tank, such as
>ammonia,
> > nitrite and (most important) nitrate. These might also have been
>problems
> > for your friend's fish.
> >
> > Julie <><
> >
> >
> > >From: "christian_vanbelle" <christian_vanbelle at y...>
> > >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [RML] Unknow cause of mortality
> > >Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:58:55 -0000
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >
> > >I was going to have some fishes at Gilbert Maebe's house last
> > >saturday with some good friends. I bought a school of Melanotaenia
> > >macculochi Skull Creek (very pretty and small size). A friend of
> > >mine the same fishes from the same tank. Gilbert's fishes are very
> > >good and healthy.
> > >
> > >My friend ste them in a 120 l tank (conductivity 500 ppm, pH 7.5).
> > >After two days, one mac has a spot on his head who seems like
> > >moisture. He died one day after. Today, one fish more died
>without
> > >any traces of disease.
> > >
> > >I hold mine in common water (800 ppm, Ph more than 7.5). I have no
> > >stress and they spawn.
> > >
> > >Has someone a threat to explain the dead of the fishes in my
>friends
> > >tank ?
> > >
> > >Cheers
> > >
> > >Christian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>