His explanation on carbonate hardness and alkalinity is about 20 pages as
well. The book is about 950 pages long and will take a long time to read.
Cheers
Dave
On 4/12/05 3:34 AM, "Julie Zeppieri" <bowluvr at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Gary. :-)
>
> The KH of the Rift Lake tanks is 13. That is what the buffer is designed
> for. Never measure the GH, but my guess it is also moderate-to-high from a
> read of the buffer's ingredients. In the Rift Lake tanks, ironically, I do
> not use any crushed coral or shell, just the buffer. I only use crushed
> coral/shell (and in small amounts) in my non-Rift tanks to keep the pH from
> bottoming out -- even with discus and Apistos, as I have had the pH drop to
> 2.8!! The Apistos in the tank did fine, but I tested it due to the fact that
> the clump of previously happy Java Moss had gone to brown mush. ;-) GH/KH
> in my non-Rift tanks is in the low/soft range generally (tho not overly so)
> unless I tweak it further. I rarely do this BTW, as soft is fine for my
> needs for the most part. Even the guppies and rainbows don't mind soft so
> long as pH is not low as well.
>
> The main point to all my questions and such is that I am really not trying
> to find out IF pH drops are dangerous (I know they are), but WHY they are.
> My friend asked the physiolgy behind this, and I guess the ion thing by
> itself just doesn't seem like the right answer. Perhaps a part of it, but
> there are just things it does not address.
>
> I guess my next move is to try and contact the "wet vet" we have here in
> Oregon (U of O, Hatfeild Marine Science Center, and Oregon Coast Aquarium
> affilated -- busy man!). Hopefully I will get a reply, or at least some
> literature links. If I get a full explanation on this I will forward it to
> the list. I was just hoping to do this "in house" since so many of you are
> in the habit of knowing such details usually. :-)
>
> Julie <'><
>
>
>> From: Gary Lange <rainbowfish4u2 at yahoo.com>
>> Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>> To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [RML] ionic strength, avoiding fish kills
>> Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 08:38:20 -0800 (PST)
>>
>> Ok, so reading and answering questions on coffee break is not the best
>> idea. <some> of the stuff he said made sense, other items didn't. I agree
>> that going from high pH to low pH, even with pretty much the same ionic
>> strength could zap your fish. I'm usually taking fish from someone with
>> well water (400 ppm GH, lots of KH and who knows how many other ions, pH ~
>> 7.8 or higher) and moving it to my 125 ppm GH, 3 degrees (~ 54 ppm) KH and
>> fairly low in ions, pH ~ 7. So most of the time I'm dealing with both
>> effects. Like you, I have gone from low to high (ions/hardness or pH) w/o
>> any problems too, fairly quickly, w/o any problems.
>>
>> Have you ever measured the GH/KH of the water that you are keeping your
>> Africans in? I would bet that the aragonite or crushed shell/coral has
>> raised your GH & KH a fair amount and it's probably higher than you think.
>> Bottom line, take home message though is don't go from high to low,
>> quickly, do it slowly. Take a few hours or even overnight for really big
>> differences. Dripping from the tank into the bucket with the new fish is
>> the best way to accomplish this w/o too much hassle. Just keep a lid on
>> those bows as they really get crazy in a bucket!
>>
>> gary lange
>>
>>
>> Julie Zeppieri <bowluvr at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> So, then, Gary, does this mean that you agree with that forum-guy's
>> explanation of the physiological "whys" in which taking a fish from high pH
>> to low will likely kill it, but taking it from low to high will likely not
>> hurt it?? I don't really see how that works, myself.
>>
>> Seems to me this does not take into account that the ionic content of the
>> water may be close to the same from the "higher" pH to the "lower" one --
>> such as when one goes from say a 7.1 down to 5.4. I can get a higher pH
>> water here in Portland w/out greatly altering either KH or GH, and I don't
>> ever use much more than just some crushed shell or aragonite to keep pH
>> from
>> tanking (outside of Rift Lake tanks, at least). Don't use much NaCl either
>> unless a problem (eg: Velvet) calls for it. Granted, I don't have a way to
>> test ionic content, but my tests do show that my water is still considered
>> "soft" even at pHs above 7. And yet in the above scenario, I *can* kill a
>> fish by just dumping it into a 5.4 tank from out of a 7.1 tank, even a
>> species which can theoretically handle the 5.4 if acclimated slowly, and
>> despite the fact that it doesn't seem to me that the ionic content would be
>> that different.
>>
>> However, when I "shoot the elevator to the top floor" by dumping Rift Lake
>> buffer into a tank that was previously at about 7.4-ish and relatively
>> soft,
>> sending it up to KH 13 and pH 8.3 (and goodness knows what GH or ionic
>> content), and the fish don't even seem to notice, well, I must say I am
>> stumped by this "ionic is the cause" answer. If this IS the case, can you
>> explain it to me so I get it? 'Cause I don't.
>>
>> Mebbee I is just thick inna head or sumpin' -- dunno. ;-)
>>
>> Thanks!