Ok Gary,
The planted aquarium that I have is I agree not in balance again yet, it
has just had a lot more light put on it at the same time that it had the
pH controller go on.
However aside from that it is reasonably stable having been around for a
while simply in a process of eveolution.
Now to the water chemistry, 0ppm Nitrate on a regular basis, <<.1ppm
Phosphate, O NH3, 0 NO2. Water changes are 20-30% EVERY week, the fish do
not need so much water changing, but I have found that the plants do
better with this level. Filtration is from an internal power filter with
an output of 4 tank volumes an hour and the temp is 25 degrees.
Now as to people saying what may cause cyanobacterial blooms then we have
a difference of opinion. Karen Randell of the Plant study group has made
the statement " I have never seen cyanobacteria associated with high
nitrate levels" They are normaly seen when an aquarium is running in the
last phases of settling in, when the plants are using enough nitrate to
deplete it and that element becomes limiting for growth. There may be a
trace of (probably ) phosphate around that is causing the bloom.
Phospahtes can be a problem at concentrations of less than .05ppm under
the right conditions (ie enough of the other nutrients that are required
for growth).
To answer your question about whether or not I think that it is a healthy
tank, it would be except for the cyanobacteria. That is why I took the
action that I did. There are so many young crypts in there now that I
really do have to get in and thin them out before I am totally overun
with them.
Now as to EM's effectiveness, well that is another story. In data for
biochemical research it is listed as a general inhibitor of bacterial
protein synthesis, as with the Merck index. The IC50 is listed as just
.04 micrograms per ml for B. subtilis.
Your attempts at showing that it could not happen relies on your second
guessing my diagnosis and then applying things from there. It may not
have been a "true" ulcer, but then again nobody seems to know what one
really is anyway, looking at the debate that came up on that subject
before if you do not believe me.
What I did was offer an observation about something that happened in the
tank. Something really did happen because I saw it, it matched what I
have seen of ulcers before and that has in the end killed all those fish.
Erythromycin is still used as a human theroputic, I had it when I was a
kid and it nearly killed me because I am one of the people that has a
natural violent reaction to it, it is for that reason that it is a
prescription drug here.
> lunch if you really think that a healthy aquarium should be supporting that
> type of BG algae growth.
As I said before it is healthy aside from that one little problem, there
are some very spectacular fish in there.
> 2) The Plant group and lists has suggested using erythomycin at half strength
> to destroy this "bacteria". This knocks it out quite nicely. For "supposed"
> diseases of fishes Mardel recommends 200 mg/10 gallons. I guess that roughly
> works out to 5 mg/l so a 1/2 dose does just as good. Why do I know :-)
I used 7.5mg/L
> later followed by another 1/2 dose is a reasonable follow up. That should be
the end of the problem.
Half doses of antibiotics are listed as one of the major reasons for
bacteria developing resistance.
>> 3) Since Mycobacterium (what I and several others think of as the main ulcer
> problem) don't respond to any really "normal" type of antibiotic I would
I think the key here is that you "think", there is no proof of what you
have said and thus any reasoning based on that assumption must then be
analysed on that basis.
> I quote from Adrian, the caps are mine.
> "Aeromonas hydrophila causes disease in fish known as "Motile Aeromonas
> Septicemia" (MAS), "Haemorrhagic Septicemia," "Ulcer Disease," or "Red-Sore
> Disease." The many synonyms of this disease relate to the lesions caused by
> this bacterium which include septicemia where the bacteria or bacterial
> toxins are present within numerous organs of the fish, and ulcers of the
> fish's skin. Aeromonas hydrophila is a ubiquitous GRAM-NEGATIVE rod-shaped
> bacterium....."
>
> Peter, Erthoromycins (Macrolides), obtained from Streptomyces erythreus is only
> effective against GRAM POSITIVE organisms. It would be absolutely useless
> against a gram negative bacterium. To suggest that it would be useful against
> Mycobacterium well, I won't go there :-) It is also suggested (in the human
> micro book) that it works better at higher pH's. I would suppose they were
> referring to 7.2 and above.
It's pKa is 6.8, so it is probably higher than that.
>
> I would suggest that instead that your decrease in ulcers might have been your
> appropriate uses of massive water changes (not stated but often performed by
> persons eager to rid their aquarium of the blue-green monster), the lowering of
> your CO2 input, with a corresponding increase in pH, or maybe by a third
The pH is a constant 7 held by a custom built electronic controller. kH
is maintained so that the CO2 content is at 10-15ppm (ie about 5
degrees). No other buffers are added to the tank.
> difference. Also what perhaps was the before and after pH? Did the
> temperature decrease, ie and increase dissolved Oxygen levels? Was the
> circulation increased?
The oxygen concentration is so close to saturation permanently that it
has no bearing. The plants in this tank produce bubbles within 2hr of the
lights coming on. There is little surface agitation to keep CO2 in the
tank and so O2 should not be lost at a great rate either.
>
> Doesn't a "kick me" (refering to another Adrian post) sign appear on everyone
> elses terminal everytime Peter H. signs on??? :-)
You would not think that an observation would have resulted in such a
lengthy and disparaging post as a reply, of course there are limitations
to what I saw. I do not claim to be the sole aribitor of truth however.
It is interesting however to note that not one person replied to the
posting that Alan put up regarding the treatment of ulcers with Aloe
vera. Strange the way that our minds work.
> >
Gary Lange >
Peter Hughes
I may comment on subjects that cause a reaction, that is probably because
I am concerned or interested in what I write about. If that causes a stir
among some people then so be it.