AW: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)

Harro Hieronimus (harro.hieronimus at t-online.de)
Wed, 1 Jun 2005 00:17:36 +0200

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Hi,

=20

I have not been in hospital yet =96 but nearly. The reason for the allergy
is the haemoglobin which is quite similar to the human haemoglobin (the
red colour pigment in our blood). I have the same eye problems with
bloodworms than Julie, if I touch them (or if I give a hand to a person
who has fed them and washed his hands!). I had real problems with
freeze-dried ones. When a box fell down I cleaned the bottom =96 with the
result, that I couldn=92t speak for a day or more as my voice strings
(sorry, don=92t know if this is correct, can=92t find my dictionary) were
swollen. I still could breath and so decided not to visit the doctor.
But I=92m quite sure that in severe cases freeze-dried bloodworms may
cause asthma and maybe lead to death if not treated quickly. So make a
test if you have a bloodworm allergy and avoid them, if you are. The
test is easy: Put a few bloodworms (frozen) on your arm and wait ten
minutes. If the skin becomes red you are allergic. If the skin looks
like severely sunburned, you are really allergic. I also can support
Julie=92s report that the allergy becomes worse the more often you are
exposed to bloodworms.

=20

Regards Harro

=20

=20

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht-----
Von: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com [r_m_l at yahoogroups.com] Im Auftrag von
Julie Zeppieri
Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Mai 2005 01:49
An: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
Betreff: Re: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)

=20

Harro and I have both mentioned our bloodworm allergies before on this
list.=20
Harro is much more sensitive than I, but over the years my reactions
have=20
become more severe.

When I first began in the hobby, I had no problems with bloodworms and
used=20
them frequently on many fish spp. The last several (5 or 6??) years I
have=20
begun to react to them, and the reactions became progressively worse.
Now I=20
try my best to avoid them as much as is possible when working in retail
fish=20
shops, and I no longer use them at all at home. There are plenty of
great=20
substitutes and I find my fish are less likely to "fixate" on just the
one=20
food like they used to with bloodworms.

Now, if I am exposed to them (especially in frozen form) and don't=20
immediately wash with soap and water, my eyes swell up... not the lids,
but=20
the actual outer layer of the eyeball itself (sclera??). They itch and=20
water, and once both swelled and my face got quite tight. Had to take=20
Benadryl, which I don't do very often. Scary. My hands also can get
itchy=20
and my heart rate definitely goes up.

And my reactions are still mild.

I know others (Harro included) who have had to be rushed to hospital
from=20
exposure. My boyfriend is also mildly allergic and he gets itchy skin
from=20
exposure. Several friends who also are long time fishkeepers have
developed=20
mild allergies, too.

Harro can better explain the reasons behind the sensitivity many people
have=20
to these critters I am sure. Something to do with them having blood
which=20
contains hemoglobin. One thing I do know. They happen over time and with

repeated exposure, and the severity of the reactions gets worse with
each=20
exposure. Eventually one can become so allergic that reactions can be=20
potentially fatal.

There ya go! :-)

Julie <'><

>From: "Brad Jackson" <angfa1 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>To: <r_m_l at yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 17:14:26 -0500
>
>Julie
> I have kept fish for over 35 years and have yet to encounter a fish
with=20
>TB. Currently I only have native north american fish but at one point I
had=20
>50 tanks dedicated to rainbows and never had any with TB. Most of my
fish=20
>were wild caught or ofspring from my wild fish which may have made a=20
>difference. I do however understand that it is a serious desease and
care=20
>should be taken. I am curious about your bloodworm allergies though.
Could=20
>you elaborate more this is a new one to me but maybe something more
people=20
>should be aware of.
>Later
>angfa1
>Brad Jackson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Julie Zeppieri
> To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:43 PM
> Subject: Re: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>
>
> Heh! ;-) :-)
>
> Considering I have worked for the past 12 to 15 years in the pet
trade I=20
>am
> sure I have been exposed to this on MANY occaisions! I, too, know
people=20
>who
> have gotten this disease and it is not cured quickly, and by all=20
>accounts is
> not fun. :-( I do what I can to stay reasonably safe, but I
understand
> that I risk infection sooner or later as long as I am employed in
the=20
>pet
> trade. My hands are in and out of all sorts of aquariums every day.
>
> I guess it could be worse tho. I could be in a profession where I
risk
> getting killed instead of just sick. I could be a doctor/nurse or a
> firefighter or in law enforcement, where they risk much more than
just a
> fish-TB infection... of course they get better pay, too, don't they?
It=20
>is
> all a matter of perspective, I guess.
>
> All in all, I am much more concerned with exposure to bloodworms, as

>THAT
> could kill me with my allergies to them. This is a much bigger fear
for=20
>me,
> personally, than fish-TB. I know you have even worse bloodworm
allergies
> than I do, Harro, so you can understand this I think.
>
> As I said, I am as careful as I can be and still do my job. :-) =
=20
>Despite
> the levity in my posts, I do not take this lightly, but it is a fact
of=20
>my
> job that I am at risk and I accept this.
>
> Julie <'><
>
>
> >From: "Harro.Hieronimus at t-online.de" <harro.hieronimus at t-online.de>
> >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
> >Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:50:40 +0200
> >
> >I would not even put my hand in a tank with obviously TB infected
fish!
> >This disease is harmful to men and may cause severe damage if not
cured
> >in time (another reason not to use antibiotics in aquarism!). There
has
> >been a lot of information in an article a few years ago, published
in
> >FAMA or AFM, I can't remember exactly. I have contact to several=20
>dealers
> >and learned that several already had a fish tb infection. It ended
in
> >most cases at least with a scar, and in one case antibiotics seem
not=20
>to
> >work sufficiently (maybe a stupid doctor, too, who does not know
much
> >about this disease). So be careful and use plastic gloves in an=20
>infected
> >tank.
> >
> >Harro
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 03:13:09 +0200
> >Subject: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
> >From: "Julie Zeppieri" <bowluvr at hotmail.com>
> >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> >
> > I think having a "comprehensive" piece of literature covering
all
> >aspects of
> > this disease would be a good resource to have available to all
out
> >there,
> > especially to Rainbowfish keepers. :-) I, for one, would
> >appreciate your
> > doing this.
> > One can keep infected fish alive for many years with good care. I
> >have found
> > that if one does need to keep infected fish alive for whatever
> >reason, that
> > the tank they are in should have all of its own (dedicated) nets,
> >buckets,
> > siphons and other equipment, and hands should be washed after
> >working the
> > tank so as not to spread the disease elsewhere.
> > Julie <
> > >From: "blueredorganic"
> > >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
> > >Date: Sun, 29 May 2005 22:54:36 -0000
> > >
> > >Dear Rainbowfish lovers,
> > >
> > >I'm not sure how posting to this group works, so I'm going to be
> > >brief.
> > >
> > >After 15 years of having Rainbowfish with few problems, all 3 of
my
> > >tanks are now infected with Fish TB. I assume its from some
fish I
> > >added to one tank last year. Believe me, this disease is no
fun.
> >It
> > >Rainbowfish appear to be highly susceptible and what I've read
on
> > >Internet suggests that many commercial stocks are now infected.
> >Last
> > >time I visited my local aquarium store, half of the fish had a
few
> > >symptoms ... gill cover erosion, sluggishness, swollen bodies,
etc.
> > >
> > >Symptoms don't appear for months, so even careful quarantining
may
> > >not help. There is no cure other than to tear down tanks and
start
> > >over.
> > >
> > >While poor care may accentuate the disease in infected fish,
poor
> > >care will not cause it. The organisms that cause the disease
> > >(pathogenic strains of Mycobacterium marinum and M. fortinum)
must
> >be
> > >first be brought into the tank.
> > >
> > >I will be glad to write a comprehensive article for this group
on
> > >what I have learned about Mycobacteriosis. I believe that every
> > >person in this group should know more about this disease that
> > >threatens our Rainbowfish. This disease is also transmitted to
> > >humans (e.g., "fish tank syndrome".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In r_m_l at yahoogroups.com, "Julie Zeppieri" wrote:
> > > > It has never stopped me. :-) As with everything else in
life,
> > >you should
> > > > be an informed consumer and do some research before you
> >purchase.
> > >Then, take
> > > > good care of what you buy. Goes a long, long way in keeping
> >things
> > >fun IMHO.
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Julie <
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: ampullariidae at c...
> > > > >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [RML] Fish TB?
> > > > >Date: Fri, 6 May 2005 17:57:12 EDT
> > > > >
> > > > >Do you think the fear of rainbowfish getting TB would
warrant
> >not
> > >keeping
> > > > >them? I have a large aquarium collection and I don't need an
> > >epidemic...
> > > > >
> > > > >Thanks,
> > > > >Andrew
> > >
> > >

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Hi,

 

I have not been in hospital yet –= ; but nearly. The reason for the = allergy is the haemoglobin which is quite similar to the human haemoglobin (the red colour pigment in our blood). I have the same eye problems with bloodworms = than Julie, if I touch them (or if I give a hand to a person who has fed them an= d washed his hands!). I had real problems with freeze-dried ones. When a box = fell down I cleaned the bottom – with the result, that I couldn’t sp= eak for a day or more as my voice strings (sorry, don’t know if this is correct, can’t find my dictionary) were swollen. I still could breath= and so decided not to visit the doctor. But I’m quite sure that in severe cases freeze-dried bloodworms may cause asthma and maybe lead to death if n= ot treated quickly. So make a test if you have a bloodworm allergy and avoid t= hem, if you are. The test is easy: Put a few bloodworms (frozen) on your arm and wait ten minutes. If the skin becomes red you are allergic. If the skin loo= ks like severely sunburned, you are really allergic. I also can support Julie&= #8217;s report that the allergy becomes worse the more often you are exposed to bloodworms.

 

Regards Harro

 

 

-----Urspr=FCngliche Nachrich= t-----
Von: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com Im Auftr= ag von Julie Zeppieri
Gesendet: Dienstag, 31. Mai = 2005 01:49
An: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: RE: [RML] Fis= h TB (Mycobacteriosis)

 

Harro and I have both mentioned our bloodworm allergies before on this list. <= font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">
Harro is much more sensitive than I, but ove= r the years my reactions have
become more severe.

When I first began in the hobby, I had no pr= oblems with bloodworms and used
them frequently on many fish spp. The last s= everal (5 or 6??) years I have
begun to react to them, and the reactions be= came progressively worse. Now I
try my best to avoid them as much as is poss= ible when working in retail fish
shops, and I no longer use them at all at ho= me. There are plenty of great
substitutes and I find my fish are less like= ly to "fixate" on just the one
food like they used to with bloodworms.

Now, if I am exposed to them (especially in = frozen form) and don't
immediately wash with soap and water, my eye= s swell up... not the lids, but
the actual outer layer of the eyeball itself (sclera??). They itch and
water, and once both swelled and my face got= quite tight. Had to take
Benadryl, which I don't do very often. Scary= . My hands also can get itchy
and my heart rate definitely goes up.=

And my reactions are still mild.=

I know others (Harro included) who have had = to be rushed to hospital from
exposure. My boyfriend is also mildly allerg= ic and he gets itchy skin from
exposure. Several friends who also are long = time fishkeepers have developed
mild allergies, too.

Harro can better explain the reasons behind = the sensitivity many people have
to these critters I am sure. Something to do= with them having blood which
contains hemoglobin. One thing I do know. Th= ey happen over time and with
repeated exposure, and the severity of the reactions gets worse with each
exposure. Eventually one can become so aller= gic that reactions can be
potentially fatal.

There ya go!  :-)

Julie  <'><


>From: "Brad Jackson" <angfa1 at hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>To: <r_m_l at yahoogroups.com>=
>Subject: Re: RE: [RML] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 17:14:26 -0500
>
>Julie
>   I have kept fish for over 3= 5 years and have yet to encounter a fish with
>TB. Currently I only have native north american fish but at one point I had
>50 tanks dedicated to rainbows and never= had any with TB. Most of my fish
>were wild caught or ofspring from my wil= d fish which may have made a
>difference. I do however understand that= it is a serious desease and care
>should be taken. I am curious about your bloodworm allergies though. Could
>you elaborate more this is a new one to = me but maybe something more people
>should be aware of.
>Later
>angfa1
>Brad Jackson
>   ----- Original Message ----= -
>   From: Julie Zeppieri=
>   To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 = 1:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: RE: [RML] Fi= sh TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>
>
>   Heh!  ;-)  :-)
>
>   Considering I have worked f= or the past 12 to 15 years in the pet trade I
>am
>   sure I have been exposed to= this on MANY occaisions! I, too, know people
>who
>   have gotten this disease an= d it is not cured quickly, and by all
>accounts is
>   not fun.  :-(  I = do what I can to stay reasonably safe, but I understand
>   that I risk infection soone= r or later as long as I am employed in the
>pet
>   trade. My hands are in and = out of all sorts of aquariums every day.
>
>   I guess it could be worse t= ho. I could be in a profession where I risk
>   getting killed instead of j= ust sick. I could be a doctor/nurse or a
>   firefighter or in law enforcement, where they risk much more than just a
>   fish-TB infection... of cou= rse they get better pay, too, don't they? It
>is
>   all a matter of perspective= , I guess.
>
>   All in all, I am much more concerned with exposure to bloodworms, as
>THAT
>   could kill me with my aller= gies to them. This is a much bigger fear for
>me,
>   personally, than fish-TB. I= know you have even worse bloodworm allergies
>   than I do, Harro, so you ca= n understand this I think.
>
>   As I said, I am as careful = as I can be and still do my job.  :-)  
>Despite
>   the levity in my posts, I d= o not take this lightly, but it is a fact of
>my
>   job that I am at risk and I accept this.
>
>   Julie  <'><
>
>
>   >From: "Harro.Hieronimus at t-online.de" <harro.hieronimus at t-online.de&g= t;
>   >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.c= om
>   >Subject: Re: RE: [r_m_l= ] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>   >Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 10:50:40 +0200
>   >
>   >I would not even put my= hand in a tank with obviously TB infected fish!
>   >This disease is harmful= to men and may cause severe damage if not cured
>   >in time (another reason= not to use antibiotics in aquarism!). There has
>   >been a lot of informati= on in  an article a few years ago, published in
>   >FAMA or AFM, I can't re= member exactly. I have contact to several
>dealers
>   >and learned that severa= l already had a fish tb infection. It ended in
>   >most cases at least wit= h a scar, and in one case antibiotics seem not
>to
>   >work sufficiently (mayb= e a stupid doctor, too, who does not know much
>   >about this disease). So= be careful and use plastic gloves in an
>infected
>   >tank.
>   >
>   >Harro
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >-----Original Message--= ---
>   >Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 03:13:09 +0200
>   >Subject: RE: [RML] Fi= sh TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>   >From: "Julie Zeppieri" <bowluvr at hotmail.com>
>   >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.c= om
>   >
>   >   I think ha= ving a "comprehensive" piece of literature covering all
>   >aspects of<= br> >   >  this disease wou= ld be a good resource to have available to all out
>   >there,
>   >  especially to Rainbowfish keepers.  :-)   I, for one, would >   >appreciate your<= /tt>
>   >  doing this.
>   >  One can keep inf= ected fish alive for many years with good care. I
>   >have found<= br> >   >  that if one does= need to keep infected fish alive for whatever
>   >reason, that
>   >  the tank they ar= e in should have all of its own (dedicated) nets,
>   >buckets, >   >  siphons and othe= r equipment, and hands should be washed after
>   >working the=
>   >  tank so as not t= o spread the disease elsewhere.
>   >  Julie  <=
>   >  >From: "blueredorganic"
>   >  >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   >  >To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   >  >Subject: [r_= m_l] Fish TB (Mycobacteriosis)
>   >  >Date: Sun, 2= 9 May 2005 22:54:36 -0000
>   >  >=
>   >  >Dear Rainbow= fish lovers,
>   >  >=
>   >  >I'm not sure= how posting to this group works, so I'm going to be
>   >  >brief.
>   >  >=
>   >  >After 15 yea= rs of having Rainbowfish with few problems, all 3 of my
>   >  >tanks are no= w infected with Fish TB.  I assume its from some fish I
>   >  >added to one= tank last year.  Believe me, this disease is no fun.
>   >It
>   >  >Rainbowfish = appear to be highly susceptible and what I've read on
>   >  >Internet sug= gests that many commercial stocks are now infected.
>   >Last
>   >  >time I visit= ed my local aquarium store, half of the fish had a few
>   >  >symptoms ...= gill cover erosion, sluggishness, swollen bodies, etc.
>   >  >=
>   >  >Symptoms don= 't appear for months, so even careful quarantining may
>   >  >not help.&nb= sp; There is no cure other than to tear down tanks and start
>   >  >over.=
>   >  >=
>   >  >While poor c= are may accentuate the disease in infected fish, poor
>   >  >care will no= t cause it.  The organisms that cause the disease
>   >  >(pathogenic strains of Mycobacterium marinum and M. fortinum) must
>   >be
>   >  >first be bro= ught into the tank.
>   >  >=
>   >  >I will be gl= ad to write a comprehensive article for this group on
>   >  >what I have learned about Mycobacteriosis.  I believe that every
>   >  >person in th= is group should know more about this disease that
>   >  >threatens ou= r Rainbowfish.  This disease is also transmitted to
>   >  >humans (e.g.= , "fish tank syndrome".
>   >  >=
>   >  >=
>   >  >=
>   >  >=
>   >  >--- In r_m_l at yahoogroups.com, "Julie Zeppieri"  wrote:<= br> >   >  > > It has= never stopped me.  :-)   As with everything else in life,
>   >  >you should
>   >  > > be an informed consumer and do some research before you
>   >purchase. >   >  >Then, take
>   >  > > good c= are of what you buy. Goes a long, long way in keeping
>   >things
>   >  >fun IMHO.
>   >  > > &= nbsp; :-)
>   >  > >=
>   >  > > Julie&= nbsp; <
>   >  > >=
>   >  > >=
>   >  > > >Fr= om: ampullariidae at c...
>   >  > > >Reply-To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   >  > > >To= : r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
>   >  > > >Su= bject: Re: [RML] Fish TB?
>   >  > > >Da= te: Fri, 6 May 2005 17:57:12 EDT
>   >  > > >
>   >  > > >Do= you think the fear of rainbowfish getting TB would warrant
>   >not
>   >  >keeping
>   >  > > >th= em? I have a large aquarium collection and I don't need an
>   >  >epidemic...<= /font>
>   >  > > >
>   >  > > >Th= anks,
>   >  > > >An= drew
>   >  >=
>   >  >=
>   >-----------------------= --
>   >  YAHOO! GROUPS LI= NKS
>   >        *To visit your group on the = web, go to:
>   >http://groups.yahoo.com/group= /r_m_l/ [1]
>   >         *To unsubscribe from t= his group, send an email to:
>   >r_m_l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com [2]
>   >         *Your use of Yahoo! Gr= oups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>   >Service [3].
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Links:
>   >------
>   >[1] http://groups.yahoo.com/group= /r_m_l/
>   >[2] r_m_l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=3DUnsubscribe<= br> >   >[3] http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms= /
>   >
>   >
>   >
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------= --------------------------------------
>  

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