RE: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite

Brett E. Kemker, Ph.D. (kemker at latech.edu)
Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:43:18 -0500

Messages sorted by: [ date ][ thread ][ subject ][ author ]
Next message: Liz Wilhite: "Re: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite"
Previous message: Julie Zeppieri: "Re: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite"

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C54667.4FFACEE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Amen.

Good things,
-Brett

_____

From: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com [r_m_l at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Lange
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:11 AM
To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite

When you don't keep up with your water changes bad things happen. Fish
become succeptible to things in the tank that normally wouldn't bother them.
The females have already gotten used to living in a toilet! The other fish
in the tank may also be a bit more resistant. This is the complaint of
newbies into the hobby. The fish in my tank, which I haven't changed in 2
years are fine. When I add new fish they die, WHY? Same argument. I
really don't buy the phosphate argument though. Just stop whining and get
him to start doing his water changes ;-)

Soft water fishes in the wild and in our fish room. In the wild, most of
the time they are getting 100% water changes every second. It's not really
the low pH that causes the problems in our aquariums but the stuff that
causes the pH to go low, fish waste etc. He may have screwed around too
long already so it may be too late for that male. I'm not sure if it was
mentioned but Pseudomugils in general need a little bit more care than the
average aquarium fish. Hopefully they're getting something besides just
flake food in his tank. Live baby brine shrimp. Cyclops-eze, chopped
bloodworms are all helpful. Live daphnia will bring out the best breeding
performance in any Pseudomugil, ditto for mosquito larvae. But I think
that's probably a secondary problem and not the primary one. Have him
perform a 2-3 50% water changes a couple of days apart and then at least
once every week and see what happens. I wish I could tell you that I always
do 50% weekly water changes on each of my 80 some odd tanks but I don't. At
least I "get that" and when I see a tank isn't looking particularly perky I
do a quick check on the tank parameters, pH being the easiest and with my
low KH the most reliable one that tells me to get off my arse and do some
water changes. When I mess up I'll also go back and do a second 50% change
a few days later. I guess that is the difference between a good aquarist
and the "wantabees". Not knocking your friend but this is the way it's been
for the last 30 odd years I've been in the hobby. People don't want to take
the time to change their water, they want to buy the snakeoil stuff from
Tetra, they'll buy $40 worth of medicine as their fish are now sick from the
nasty water, but they still won't do the proper water changes. The meds
only make the situation worse. They'll claim their water is too hard, too
soft, too high, too low, too hot/cold, too much phosphate... Nitrates,
nitrites and ammonia definitely are a problem but in most instances (not
all, especially from wells in the farm belts) not in the water that you're
adding to the tank. If he had even a little bit of ammonia in his tank then
he definitely had a water quality issue. BTW I think I would recommend that
he uses a San Fran produced product called Amquel (Kordon) when he does
those water changes. If his tank has ammonia and is acidic it's not
healthy. But if he does a 50% water change and the ammonia that is left is
still above normal levels increasing the pH (via the water change) could be
toxic w/o something to help tie up the ammonia. BTW make sure you DO NOT
use an ammonia test kit that uses Nessler reagents as they test false
positives for any ammonia treatment. Tetra makes a fine reagent for testing
for ammonia as well as others that don't rely on that reagent. If you can
get him to do his big water changes let us know in a few weeks. If not try
and convince him that fish "screen savers" are much easier to care for!

cheers,

gary lange

Tom Ray <t_a_ray_cissp at yahoo.com> wrote:

I find these responses interesting. I too believe water /
environmentals are critical. That's why I previously got him to
change his water. That's why I am also a bit "A.R." about things like
that.

1) As for me... I don't currently test for phosphates. So do you
think phosphate testing my water before I make my weekly water changes
might add value?

2) If phosphates are high, what remedy do I then take?

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C54667.4FFACEE0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>

<style>

</style>

</head>

Amen…<o:p></o:p>

<o:p> </o:p>

<div>

Good things, 
-Brett <o:p></o:p>

</div>

<o:p> </o:p>

<div>

</div>

From: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
[r_m_l at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Lange 
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005
8:11 AM 
To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com 
Subject: Re: [RML] Re: P
signifer male paling & losing appetite<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<o:p> </o:p>

<div>

When you don't keep up with your water changes bad things happen. 
Fish become succeptible to things in the tank that normally wouldn't bother
them.  The females have already gotten used to living in a toilet! 
The other fish in the tank may also be a bit more resistant.  This is the
complaint of newbies into the hobby.  The fish in my tank, which I haven't
changed in 2 years are fine.  When I add new fish they die, WHY? 
Same argument.  I really don't buy the phosphate argument though. 
Just stop whining and get him to start doing his water changes ;-)<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

Soft water fishes in the wild and in our fish room.  In the wild,
most of the time they are getting 100% water changes every second.  It's
not really the low pH that causes the problems in our aquariums but the stuff
that causes the pH to go low, fish waste etc.  He may have screwed around
too long already so it may be too late for that male.  I'm not sure if it
was mentioned but Pseudomugils in general need a little bit more care than the
average aquarium fish.  Hopefully they're getting something besides just
flake food in his tank.  Live baby brine shrimp. Cyclops-eze, chopped
bloodworms are all helpful.  Live daphnia will bring out the best breeding
performance in any Pseudomugil, ditto for mosquito larvae.  But I think
that's probably a secondary problem and not the primary one.  Have him
perform a 2-3 50% water changes a couple of days apart and then at least
once every week and see what happens.  I wish I could tell you that I
always do 50% weekly water changes on each of my 80 some odd tanks but I
don't.  At least I "get that" and when I see a tank isn't
looking particularly perky I do a quick check on the tank parameters, pH being
the easiest and with my low KH the most reliable one that tells me to get off
my arse and do some water changes.  When I mess up I'll also go back and
do a second 50% change a few days later.  I guess that is the difference
between a good aquarist and the "wantabees".  Not knocking your
friend but this is the way it's been for the last 30 odd years I've been in the
hobby.  People don't want to take the time to change their water, they
want to buy the snakeoil stuff from Tetra, they'll buy $40 worth of medicine as
their fish are now sick from the nasty water, but they still won't do the
proper water changes.  The meds only make the situation worse. 
They'll claim their water is too hard, too soft, too high, too low, too
hot/cold, too much phosphate...  Nitrates, nitrites and ammonia definitely
are a problem but in most instances (not all, especially from wells in the farm
belts) not in the water that you're adding to the tank.  If he had even a
little bit of ammonia in his tank then he definitely had a water quality
issue.  BTW I think I would recommend that he uses a San Fran produced
product called Amquel (Kordon) when he does those water changes.  If his
tank has ammonia and is acidic it's not healthy.  But if he does a 50%
water change and the ammonia that is left is still above normal levels
increasing the pH (via the water change) could be toxic w/o something to help tie
up the ammonia.  BTW make sure you DO NOT use an ammonia test kit that
uses Nessler reagents as they test false positives for any ammonia
treatment.  Tetra makes a fine reagent for testing for ammonia as well as
others that don't rely on that reagent.  If you can get him to do his big
water changes let us know in a few weeks.  If not try and convince him
that fish "screen savers" are much easier to care for!<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

cheers,<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<div>

<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">gary</st1:place></st1:City>
lange 
 
Tom Ray
<t_a_ray_cissp at yahoo.com> wrote:<o:p></o:p>

</div>

<tt>I find these responses interesting.  I too
believe water /</tt> 
<tt>environmentals are critical.  That's why I
previously got him to</tt> 
<tt>change his water.  That's why I am also a bit
"A.R." about things like</tt> 
<tt>that.  </tt> 
 
<tt>1) As for me... I don't currently test for
phosphates.  So do you</tt> 
<tt>think phosphate testing my water before I make my
weekly water changes</tt> 
<tt>might add value?  </tt> 
 
<tt>2) If phosphates are high, what remedy do I then
take?  </tt><o:p></o:p>

</blockquote>

</body>

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01C54667.4FFACEE0--

Next message: Liz Wilhite: "Re: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite"
Previous message: Julie Zeppieri: "Re: [RML] Re: P signifer male paling & losing appetite"