Tom Barr often talks about a high phosphate level in SF water.
Unfortunately, that's about all I know. :/
-----Original Message-----
From: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com [r_m_l at yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
Gary Lange
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:18 AM
To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RML] P signifer male paling & losing appetite
Maybe one of the members of the SF "plant mafia" are on line here and can
answer a few questions about SF water. What is the actual carbonate
hardness of the SF area? I thought it was extremely soft water that really
have very little GH and also not very much KH (carbonate hardness) of only
2-3 degrees (36-48 ppm). When you don't change water in a system like that
then you're just begging for sick fish. I also can't understand why your
friend EVER had an ammonia problem. Unless you have several fish die off in
an established tank or if you crash your bacterial bed by medication, you
really should NEVER have an ammonia problem. That is usually the sign of
really sloppy maintenance. You need to get on your friend to perform
regular 50% weekly water changes. If he happens to have the larger "Ross
river/townesville" signifers then they are also going to react more
adversely to acid/low pH water. They come from brackish water and do a lot
better in that environment. To help a messed up tank get back he might be
better off performing 50% water changes every other day for a week until
things turn around. You might also suggest that he gets some fresh
chemicals for carbonate hardness as most test kits will be more accurate
than 75-200 ppm KH.
Gary Lange
Tom Ray <t_a_ray_cissp at yahoo.com> wrote:
Situation:
My friend, the one who told me about the Pseudomogils (signifers,
tenellus, & furcatus) that were available 2 weeks ago in our area /
the East Bay (of San Francisco area), told me that his P. signifer
male has lost its colors and is swimming at the top of his tank, not
eating much of anything.
He has 2 P. signifer females as well as 7 P. gertrudes (M&F), and 3 M.
praecox (2 M / 1 F) also in that tank BUT which do not seem to be
having any problems. He also told me this happend previously. And, he
lost 2 other male P. signifers in that tank when it did happen. For
somewhere between 2-6 weeks everything is A-O-K, followed by a couple
weeks of "paling," surface skimming and loss of appetitie, and then
fianlly death.
Remediations to date:
I suggested he check his ammonia levels (which proved to be "just a
little high") in case this was a symptom of chronic high ammonia. I
also suggested he check his carbonate/alkalinity which he claimed was
A-O-K (between 75-200 ppm). After changing the water (less than 40%
he said) to bring the ammonia down, he reported his P signifer perked
up (returning to the middle of the water column) for about 4 days, but
his coloration did not revive. He called me again on Sunday and told
me that his male has returned to the top and re-lost his appetite.
1) Does anyone have any idea what is causing this?
2) Is it common?
Do P signifers commonly have a habit of "tank sour" (what I call it
when a fish just pales and may die for no apparent reason)? I've seen
Butterfly Rams do that a lot after 2 months of A-O-K, and even
wondered if that isn't what happens to some Agazzi's and Checkerboard
Cichlids (although I've also suspected an unknown garbage of some sort
in the bottom mulm may be the cause).
3) Does anyone have more suggestions for possible remediations?
Again, TIA.
--TommyBoy
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-----Original Message-----
From: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Gary Lange
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 8:18 AM
To: r_m_l at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [RML] P signifer male paling & losing appetiteMaybe one of the members of the SF "plant mafia" are on line here and can answer a few questions about SF water. What is the actual carbonate hardness of the SF area? I thought it was extremely soft water that really have very little GH and also not very much KH (carbonate hardness) of only 2-3 degrees (36-48 ppm). When you don't change water in a system like that then you're just begging for sick fish. I also can't understand why your friend EVER had an ammonia problem. Unless you have several fish die off in an established tank or if you crash your bacterial bed by medication, you really should NEVER have an ammonia problem. That is usually the sign of really sloppy maintenance. You need to get on your friend to perform regular 50% weekly water changes. If he happens to have the larger "Ross river/townesville" signifers then they are also going to react more adversely to acid/low pH water. They come from brackish water and do a lot better in that environment. To help a messed up tank get back he might be better off performing 50% water changes every other day for a week until things turn around. You might also suggest that he gets some fresh chemicals for carbonate hardness as most test kits will be more accurate than 75-200 ppm KH.Gary Lange
Tom Ray <t_a_ray_cissp at yahoo.com> wrote:
Situation:
My friend, the one who told me about the Pseudomogils (signifers,
tenellus, & furcatus) that were available 2 weeks ago in our area /
the East Bay (of San Francisco area), told me that his P. signifer
male has lost its colors and is swimming at the top of his tank, not
eating much of anything.
He has 2 P. signifer females as well as 7 P. gertrudes (M&F), and 3 M.
praecox (2 M / 1 F) also in that tank BUT which do not seem to be
having any problems. He also told me this happend previously. And, he
lost 2 other male P. signifers in that tank when it did happen. For
somewhere between 2-6 weeks everything is A-O-K, followed by a couple
weeks of "paling," surface skimming and loss of appetitie, and then
fianlly death.
Remediations to date:
I suggested he check his ammonia levels (which proved to be "just a
little high") in case this was a symptom of chronic high ammonia. I
also suggested he check his carbonate/alkalinity which he claimed was
A-O-K (between 75-200 ppm). After changing the water (less than 40%
he said) to bring the ammonia down, he reported his P signifer perked
up (returning to the middle of the water column) for about 4 days, but
his coloration did not revive. He called me again on Sunday and told
me that his male has returned to the top and re-lost his appetite.
1) Does anyone have any idea what is causing this?
2) Is it common?
Do P signifers commonly have a habit of "tank sour" (what I call it
when a fish just pales and may die for no apparent reason)? I've seen
Butterfly Rams do that a lot after 2 months of A-O-K, and even
wondered if that isn't what happens to some Agazzi's and Checkerboard
Cichlids (although I've also suspected an unknown garbage of some sort
in the bottom mulm may be the cause).
3) Does anyone have more suggestions for possible remediations?
Again, TIA.
--TommyBoy
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